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Disinformation drop-off
10-15-2013, 10:08 AM,
#21
RE: Disinformation drop-off
You didn't even consider the first video to be disinfo, you completely ignored it, while that video is the most suspicious of being disinfo.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings."
10-15-2013, 10:46 AM,
#22
RE: Disinformation drop-off
You're wrong; I did consider it, and I didn't quite see any 'disinformation' in it.
I thought you might be referring to the second video, because that one looks suspiciously faked.
I have already given my analysis of the first video, and again I ask you: "What bit of the first video don't you like?"
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-15-2013, 12:40 PM, (This post was last modified: 10-15-2013, 01:04 PM by Jacque.)
#23
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-15-2013, 10:46 AM)Matthew Cassinelli Wrote: You're wrong; I did consider it, and I didn't quite see any 'disinformation' in it.
I thought you might be referring to the second video, because that one looks suspiciously faked.
I have already given my analysis of the first video, and again I ask you: "What bit of the first video don't you like?"

How exactly did you analyse it, so that YOU would be thinking it wasnt disinfo?
I really wonder how someone can just ignore the fact that the video shows ALL signs of being disinfo.

This is how I analyse it:

Scene 1: "Her brain thought it would hurt"
No, her brain saw a hammer approaching her so she shook up a little.

Scene 2: I correctly counted 14 passes between them, therefore my sight DID NOT lie to me.
The woman appearing has nothing to do with anything, you cannot pay attention to her when you have the task to count passes.

Scene 3: The video tries to suggest that she says the same thing twice.
But if you look at the womans mouth movements she ACTUALLY says "BAH" the first time and "FAH" the second time, on the contrary, my eye sight couldnt be fooled.
When pronouncing the "F" you slightly use your upper teeth and thats what we see here, disinfo, not even talking about the channel itself and how there is "proof" written everywhere in the video, a informative video wouldnt need that.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings."
10-16-2013, 03:49 AM, (This post was last modified: 10-16-2013, 03:55 AM by Matthew Cassinelli.)
#24
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-15-2013, 12:40 PM)Jacque Wrote: "How exactly did you analyse it, so that YOU would be thinking it wasnt disinfo?"

I don't understand your question.

(10-15-2013, 12:40 PM)Jacque Wrote: Scene 1: "Her brain thought it would hurt"
No, her brain saw a hammer approaching her so she shook up a little.

Fair enough, I guess there would have to be repeat studies in a more controlled environment. The theory behind this seems plausible though - there are many ways to trick the brain. Incidentally I have found some research similar to the rubber hand test: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...ne.0017208

(10-15-2013, 12:40 PM)Jacque Wrote: Scene 2: I correctly counted 14 passes between them, therefore my sight DID NOT lie to me.
The woman appearing has nothing to do with anything, you cannot pay attention to her when you have the task to count passes.

The whole point of the video wasn't about the number of passes, it was to show that the senses can only pick up a limited amount of information. But as I've said, I also counted 14 passes AND noticed the woman. This is probably because I'm used to this sort of trick (I used to watch magicians alot) (watch Derren Brown's show, he does it much better than this video).

(10-15-2013, 12:40 PM)Jacque Wrote: Scene 3: The video tries to suggest that she says the same thing twice.
But if you look at the womans mouth movements she ACTUALLY says "BAH" the first time and "FAH" the second time, on the contrary, my eye sight couldnt be fooled.
When pronouncing the "F" you slightly use your upper teeth and thats what we see here, disinfo, not even talking about the channel itself and how there is "proof" written everywhere in the video, a informative video wouldnt need that.

LOL!
The video explicitly said "THEY HAD THE SAME AUDIO".
Different video, same audio.
Do you get it now?
The whole point of the McGurk effect is that your brain takes information from your eyes (watching the mouth movements) and the ears (hearing the sound), and if there is conflicting information between the eyes and the ears (like in this video), your brain will make a compromise (and usually favours the eyes' information, which is why at 1:50, you hear "BAH" if you look on the right but "FAH" if you look on the left).
I thought you would have atleast done a bit of reading about the phenomenon you are trying to claim as "disinfo".

(10-15-2013, 12:40 PM)Jacque Wrote: I really wonder how someone can just ignore the fact that the video shows ALL signs of being disinfo.

One is "ignorant" when they see facts but deliberately refuse to acknowledge them.
I'm not ignorant, because I'm trying my hardest to find this "disinfo" you speak of, but can't find it.
Therefore I must be incompetent, and not as observant as you.
So please, show me these signs. Tell me the facts.
Surely they must be obvious for you to call me ignorant.
Enlighten me. Smile
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-16-2013, 04:59 AM,
#25
RE: Disinformation drop-off
What methods did you use to verify the correctness of the video? That's what I ment.

The woman in the first video did not get fooled by her sense of touch, she just shook up because a hammer came close.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

My sense of sight did not lie to me in the second video because the only task was to count the passes.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

In the 3rd clip my sense of hearing did not get fooled, the only ones who fooled me were the makers of the video suggesting with text what was said to later announce they actually lied, it had nothing to do with me getting fooled by my sense of hearing.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

Note that only one reason is needed to be correct in order for the video to be disinformation.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings."
10-16-2013, 05:31 AM,
#26
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-16-2013, 04:59 AM)Jacque Wrote: What methods did you use to verify the correctness of the video? That's what I ment.

Reason and critical thinking, what about you?

(10-16-2013, 04:59 AM)Jacque Wrote: The woman in the first video did not get fooled by her sense of touch, she just shook up because a hammer came close.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

Did you read the study I linked to you? The rubber hand test has been repeated many times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjGcw8DPDpk
This single video isn't a proof, it is instructions for how to conduct the rubber hand test and information about the results that have been returned so far. Why don't you conduct the experiment yourself? You need to if you want to have the tiniest bit of credibility when attempting to disprove the rubber hand phenomenon.

By the way, are you really trying to suppose that your senses can't be deceived? How arrogant.

(10-16-2013, 04:59 AM)Jacque Wrote: My sense of sight did not lie to me in the second video because the only task was to count the passes.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

Yes the 'task' (more like a psuedo-task) was to count the passes, but if your sight was in-deceivable then you would have also seen the woman. If your brain wasn't taken up with the task of counting, then you would have extra brain space to recognise the woman easily. But the clip shows that your brain is limited and fundamentally flawed. That is the point of the 2nd video and if you can't recognise that, then we're done here.

(10-16-2013, 04:59 AM)Jacque Wrote: In the 3rd clip my sense of hearing did not get fooled, the only ones who fooled me were the makers of the video suggesting with text what was said to later announce they actually lied, it had nothing to do with me getting fooled by my sense of hearing.
The video claimed to proof this, but failed to do so, disinfo.

*facepalm* are you trolling?
If not:
You still don't understand the McGurk effect even though I've extensively explained it to you. It's not your sense of hearing that is deceived, it is your brain due to conflicting information coming from the eyes and ears. Your brain has to make a decision about what to conclude (in this case FAH or BAH) based on flawed information, and this leads to interesting consequences.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0

(10-16-2013, 04:59 AM)Jacque Wrote: Note that only one reason is needed to be correct in order for the video to be disinformation.

http://bit.ly/19FqtGv
I highly doubt that this video is intended to "mislead" people, because it is just demonstrating interesting psychological research that has been around for decades. So even if ALL of this research was shown to be false, the video still wouldn't meet the criterion of being disinformation.

But I'm still waiting for you to disprove one of the effects (rubber hand test, limited attention span for visual information, or the McGurk effect). You just keep babbling on and making fallacies of relevance.
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-16-2013, 06:12 AM,
#27
RE: Disinformation drop-off
I don't have to disprove or proof anything.
I already "proofed" that the video is disinformation, for the fact that it did not do what it promised: to proof senses are lying in the given clips.
That is what this has been about, the particular video and what it claims, not the theories used.

To be honest, you seem to have the particular skills of a disinformation artist, one could endlessly argue with you.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings."
10-16-2013, 07:51 AM,
#28
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-16-2013, 06:12 AM)Jacque Wrote: I don't have to disprove or proof anything.

You are attempting to disprove the video's claims.

(10-16-2013, 06:12 AM)Jacque Wrote: I already "proofed" that the video is disinformation, for the fact that it did not do what it promised: to proof senses are lying in the given clips.

No you didn't. The video successfully shows that our senses can mislead us:
The McGurk effect shows that our brain can detrimentally change our perception of audio if conflicting visual information is provided. The rubber hand experiment reveals that our brain can think it is sensing things that it isn't. The counting task shows us that seemingly obvious information can be missed if our brain is preoccupied with other tasks.

By the way, there is no such word as disproofed. Please stop pretending to be an authority on psychology when you clearly know nothing about it. Or atleast do even the most basic research into the subject before yapping away.

(10-16-2013, 06:12 AM)Jacque Wrote: That is what this has been about, the particular video and what it claims, not the theories used.

I would agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that what it claims ARE those theories.

(10-16-2013, 06:12 AM)Jacque Wrote: To be honest, you seem to have the particular skills of a disinformation artist, one could endlessly argue with you.

If you have a good argument then present it - my personality is irrelevant. I'm still waiting for a single disproof of one of the video's claims. Also, you still haven't answered my question: are you supposing that your senses can't be deceived?
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-16-2013, 09:12 AM,
#29
RE: Disinformation drop-off
Quote:my question: are you supposing that your senses can't be deceived?

No.
"World events do not occur by accident. They are made to happen, and most of them are staged and managed by those who hold the purse strings."
10-16-2013, 10:16 PM,
#30
RE: Disinformation drop-off
Your senses obviously can be deceived. Let's say I stay at home for Halloween, and my best friend's at the door. He's wearing a really good Grim Reaper costume, so I assume that it's someone else. Let's say I'm on the train and the guy next to me has his music so loud with his headphones. I think he's listening to a Daddy Yankee song, but I've no way to actually confirm that. Let's say I'm sitting down, and I smell something really good. It smells like my neighbours are cooking Tandoori chicken, but it's actually fish. I don't think I need to go any further.

The actual "deception" comes from the brain. The senses on their own just report what they see, hear, smell, feel, or taste. What we make out of it is up to our own interpretation. Often times, we associate an image with a particular set of things. We say our senses lie to us when the image in our mind isn't what's actually happening.


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