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Disinformation drop-off
10-16-2013, 10:27 PM,
#31
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-16-2013, 10:16 PM)Togusa Wrote: Your senses obviously can be deceived. Let's say I stay at home for Halloween, and my best friend's at the door. He's wearing a really good Grim Reaper costume, so I assume that it's someone else. Let's say I'm on the train and the guy next to me has his music so loud with his headphones. I think he's listening to a Daddy Yankee song, but I've no way to actually confirm that. Let's say I'm sitting down, and I smell something really good. It smells like my neighbours are cooking Tandoori chicken, but it's actually fish. I don't think I need to go any further.

The actual "deception" comes from the brain. The senses on their own just report what they see, hear, smell, feel, or taste. What we make out of it is up to our own interpretation. Often times, we associate an image with a particular set of things. We say our senses lie to us when the image in our mind isn't what's actually happening.

You can also be decieved from thinking you are decieved when you are doing the right thing. You just can't know it.
10-17-2013, 07:52 AM,
#32
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-16-2013, 10:27 PM)Little Funny Boy Wrote: You can also be decieved from thinking you are decieved when you are doing the right thing. You just can't know it.

That may be true but it's an unlikely occurrence.
Our senses will never provide us with the full picture of anything. They are mortal, imperfect, and they degrade as we get old. Our senses can easily be mislead, and the video provides three simple examples of this.

I will go a step further and say that the fact that our senses can be so easily fooled can be explained in terms of evolution - throughout the past, our senses have not needed to be able to provide a rational, logical image of things. They have only needed to provide us with images that help us preserve our existence. And so these are the qualities of the brain that were kept.

So we must constantly:
>evaluate our beliefs
>rely on multiple sources of information
>review evidence
>peer-review
>examine our limits and biases
>and most of all: avoid using intuition and instead pause and think
To be able to counter these unfortunate sensory limits.
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-17-2013, 08:33 PM,
#33
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: beliefs also encompass that which we assume to be true but have no actual way of confirming. Evolution is a prime example. Is it considered to be proven science? Yes it is. But we can't actually prove that. All we have to go off of is data and such that others have compiled from other peoples' work and machines that someone else programmed. It's not something that an ordinary human can prove on their own. Regarding things like corporate ownership, the Illuminati, and all that mumbo jumbo, if you want to take it a step further then you can say that you don't know for sure since you can't readily prove that.

I kinda agree. Technically, NOTHING can be proven. All we can have is a degree of certainty for particular beliefs. Evolution is no longer a controversial issue in the scientific community, only in public. It has acquired a massive amount of evidence and the degree of certainty is equally massive.

You may comment that the evidence is retrospective, and I sympathise with that argument. But it IS possible to study things from the past - and indeed our knowledge would be extremely limited today if we didn't do so. The techniques used (radio-metric dating, gene sequencing etc) are very reliable. Read about them. Also, it is not completely true that the only evidence for evolution is retrospective - there have been experiments done on bacteria that show evolution in the lab. Ring species have also been observed forming in humans' life time.
If, however, some counter-evidence is found, or someone comes up with a better theory that explains the data we have, then evolution will be abandoned in favour of the new theory. That's how science works - beliefs change with new information. The theory that explains gravity has been overthrown many times.


(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: As such, getting multiple sources of information, reviewing evidence, and peer review won't exactly help you out if everyone thinks practically the same way.

They will all help you create informed conclusions. Always keep your mind open.

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: In the medical department at my college, the students are taught to constantly question what's considered to be common scientific fact, yet they go right along with things like AIDS, cancer, diabetes and whatnot.

Then they aren't very curious students.
However they might have already questioned it, examined the evidence, and then concluded that it's true?

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: The "differing opinions" that most people go for when told to pick an opposing viewpoint usually come from places like InfoWars and the sources that they link (which are usually mainstream news sources like Telegraph, Reuters et al).

Okay great. Why are you speaking about this?

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: Peer review won't help out if the vast majority of people think the same way.

You are wrong - if even one person in the population thinks differently, then more peer review = more reliability.
But peer review isn't meant to be about subjective opinions anyway, it is meant to be an objective process. There is no room for opinions when, for instance, checking if someone's experiment is logically valid.

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: Anyone who goes against what's considered to be true in the scientific community is automatically deemed a pariah, even if going through the proper procedures (like publishing journals and such).

People are afraid of change. Alot of great scientists have been killed for thinking differently. Today it's alot better than it was. Good science has always prospered though, even after the scientists were killed.

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: today though Regarding biases, EVERYONE has a bias. Gatis, Jerome, V4C, Jacque, and I all have biases. You however, also have a bias that if I might say you've failed to do a thorough examination on.

I know, I have many biases. Whenever I conclude something I check for confirmation bias, which is possibly one of the main biases of humankind.

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: Have you at least accepted the possibility that what you believe could be wrong?

Yes, but of course from your perspective I could be lying, which is why it's a great thing that this doesn't matter in an argument.

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: Regarding the whole "don't use intuition, pause and think" mentality, I was never one to actually go for that. I've always been the kind of guy to just go out there on impulse, then think AFTER I got started doing what I was doing.

If you actually do this then you are ignorant. Your impulses are not rational. Infact "impulsive" is pretty much an antonym to "rational".

(10-17-2013, 12:14 PM)Togusa Wrote: Yeah, that's the end of my thought process. It's 22:00 and I'd like to get back to watching Bob Ross paint some happy little trees.

Meh he's a mediocre artist and I find him pretentious. His voice is a bit soothing though.
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-18-2013, 08:57 AM,
#34
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-17-2013, 07:52 AM)Matthew Cassinelli Wrote:
(10-16-2013, 10:27 PM)Little Funny Boy Wrote: You can also be decieved from thinking you are decieved when you are doing the right thing. You just can't know it.

That may be true but it's an unlikely occurrence.
Our senses will never provide us with the full picture of anything. They are mortal, imperfect, and they degrade as we get old. Our senses can easily be mislead, and the video provides three simple examples of this.

I will go a step further and say that the fact that our senses can be so easily fooled can be explained in terms of evolution - throughout the past, our senses have not needed to be able to provide a rational, logical image of things. They have only needed to provide us with images that help us preserve our existence. And so these are the qualities of the brain that were kept.

So we must constantly:
>evaluate our beliefs
>rely on multiple sources of information
>review evidence
>peer-review
>examine our limits and biases
>and most of all: avoid using intuition and instead pause and think
To be able to counter these unfortunate sensory limits.

dude ur a machine
Know your enemy, dont believe lies
10-18-2013, 09:20 AM,
#35
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-18-2013, 08:57 AM)Ali Wrote: dude ur a machine

I'm not, it's just that emotions/social interactions don't help when trying to see what is rational and objective. People have misunderstood and twisted my arguments enough times on this forum already, so it helps to make myself as clear as possible from now on. Outside of this setting, I'm more 'human' Heart
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-18-2013, 03:09 PM,
#36
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-17-2013, 07:52 AM)Matthew Cassinelli Wrote:
(10-16-2013, 10:27 PM)Little Funny Boy Wrote: You can also be decieved from thinking you are decieved when you are doing the right thing. You just can't know it.

That may be true but it's an unlikely occurrence.
Our senses will never provide us with the full picture of anything. They are mortal, imperfect, and they degrade as we get old. Our senses can easily be mislead, and the video provides three simple examples of this.

I will go a step further and say that the fact that our senses can be so easily fooled can be explained in terms of evolution - throughout the past, our senses have not needed to be able to provide a rational, logical image of things. They have only needed to provide us with images that help us preserve our existence. And so these are the qualities of the brain that were kept.

So we must constantly:
>evaluate our beliefs
>rely on multiple sources of information
>review evidence
>peer-review
>examine our limits and biases
>and most of all: avoid using intuition and instead pause and think
To be able to counter these unfortunate sensory limits.

It only seems unlikely to you because you haven't experienced otherwise, it seems.
10-19-2013, 02:11 AM,
#37
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-18-2013, 03:09 PM)Little Funny Boy Wrote:
(10-17-2013, 07:52 AM)Matthew Cassinelli Wrote:
(10-16-2013, 10:27 PM)Little Funny Boy Wrote: You can also be decieved from thinking you are decieved when you are doing the right thing. You just can't know it.

That may be true but it's an unlikely occurrence.
Our senses will never provide us with the full picture of anything. They are mortal, imperfect, and they degrade as we get old. Our senses can easily be mislead, and the video provides three simple examples of this.

I will go a step further and say that the fact that our senses can be so easily fooled can be explained in terms of evolution - throughout the past, our senses have not needed to be able to provide a rational, logical image of things. They have only needed to provide us with images that help us preserve our existence. And so these are the qualities of the brain that were kept.

So we must constantly:
>evaluate our beliefs
>rely on multiple sources of information
>review evidence
>peer-review
>examine our limits and biases
>and most of all: avoid using intuition and instead pause and think
To be able to counter these unfortunate sensory limits.

It only seems unlikely to you because you haven't experienced otherwise, it seems.

It's impossible for anyone to experience. You even said yourself: you cannot know if you are being deceived about being deceived. If you know, then it is not deceit.
How strange it is to be anything at all
10-19-2013, 02:28 AM,
#38
RE: Disinformation drop-off
(10-19-2013, 02:11 AM)Matthew Cassinelli Wrote: It's impossible for anyone to experience. You even said yourself: you cannot know if you are being deceived about being deceived. If you know, then it is not deceit.

Well I didn't say you can't experience if you were decieved about being decieved.
10-19-2013, 03:32 AM,
#39
RE: Disinformation drop-off
Experience means "practical contact with and observation of facts or events."
Deceive means "deliberately cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, especially for personal gain."
Please tell me how one can be "deceived from thinking [they] are deceived when [they have done] the right thing" and experience it, while not knowing it?
As soon as they realise they have been deceived then the deceit is stopped and the sentence no longer applies.
How strange it is to be anything at all
12-05-2013, 01:12 AM,
#40
RE: Disinformation drop-off
There are many disinfo pages on Facebook that promote weed, Ron Paul, anonymous masks and so on. One page called Conspiracy Watch for example has over 2,6 million likes, sad... https://www.facebook.com/pages/Conspirac...36?fref=ts
Time to realize that the truth is not so clear!!!
Iconoclast - Silence


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